RUSSIAN PRESIDENT VADE PRESIDENT
IS BUILDING TROOPS AT THE
BORDER.
JOINING US THE ATLAS
ORGANIZATION FOUNDER AND THE
AUTHOR OF CHINA’S VISION OF
VICTORY, JONATHAN WARD MANY
THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
YOU’VE DONE AS MUCH WORK ON
RUSSIA AS YOU HAVE ON CHINA.
YOUR THOUGHTS ON THIS STANDOFF?
>> HI, MARIA.
GOOD TO BE WITH YOU.
WELL, LOOK, I THINK THERE’S AN
IMPORTANT PIECE HERE TO
UNDERSTAND HOW INTERRELATED
THESE TWO THEATERS ARE.
YOU HAVE A RUSSIA/CHINA
RELATIONSHIP THAT IS MORE
COORDINATED THAN ANY TIME SINCE
THE SOVIET SPLIT.
A LOT OF SPECIALISTS RECOGNIZE
THAT REALITY.
I WOULD SAY MOST IMPORTANTLY,
YOU HAVE A ONCE IN A GENERATION
SHIFT IN U.S. FOREIGN POLICY
TOWARDS CHINA AS THE PRIMARY
ADVERSARY.
THIS IS A VERY IMPORTANT SHIFT,
THAT’S BEEN A LONG TIME IN THE
MAKING, IT’S ABSOLUTELY
NECESSARY.
AND I THINK WHAT PUTIN APPEARS
TO BE TRYING TO DO IS TO EXTRACT
CONCESSIONS FROM THE UNITED
STATES AS WE REBALANCE TO ASIA
AS THE PRIMARY THEATER.
AND THAT BRINGS US BACK TO SORT
OF A COLD WAR ANALOGY WHICH I
THINK IS RELEVANT WHERE AT THAT
POINT OUR PRIMARY ADVERSARY WAS
IN EUROPE BUT A WHOLE LOT OF THE
PROXY WARS AND REAL MILITARY
ACTION WAS TAKING PLACE IN A.I.
ASIA WHICH WAS THE -- ASIA WHICH
WAS THE SECONDARY THEATER.
AS WE MOVE TOWARDS ASIA, THEY
SENSE IN THE KREMLIN OPPORTUNITY
IN EUROPE, THINKING THEY CAN
EXTRACT THINGS FROM THE UNITED
STATES AND WE CAN’T FALL INTO
THAT TRAP.
WE HAVE TO RECOGNIZE THAT THESE
TWO ADVERSARIES ARE -- IT HAS AT
LEAST THE POTENTIAL TO BE A
HIGHLY COORDINATED RELATIONSHIP.
THE MILITARY EXERCISES HAVE BEEN
INCREASING IN PACE, THE ECONOMIC
COORDINATION AND ALL OF THIS IS
SOMETHING THAT WE HAVE TO TREAT
THEM IN A WAY AS A PAIR AND BE
ABLE TO MANAGE THIS PROBLEM OF
AN ADVERSARY IN EUROPE, AN ADD
ADVERSARY IN ASIA.
MARIA: WHAT SHOULD WE BE DOING
ABOUT IT?
HOW WORRIED DO YOU THINK THIS
ADMINISTRATION SHOULD BE, SEEING
THAT CHINA AND RUSSIA ARE
PARTNERING EVEN CLOSER, NOW
CHINA IS ACCUSING THE UNITED
STATES OF TRYING TO, QUOTE,
SABOTAGE THE 2022 BEIJING
OLYMPICS.
THEY’RE BEGINNING THIS UPCOMING
FRIDAY.
WE HAVE -- WE ARE HERE, BEIJING
CLAIMS THE UNITED STATES IS
PAYING ATHLETES TO CRITICIZE
CHINA, MAKING HEART -- MAKING
HALF HEARTED EFFORTS IN THE
COMPETITION, JONATHAN.
TWO QUESTIONS HERE.
HOW WORRIED SHOULD WE BE THAT
CHINA AND RUSSIA ARE INCREASING
THEIR PARTNERSHIP, WORKING
CLOSER?
AND WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS IN
TERMS OF THE CCP SAYING IT WANTS
TO PURIFY THE INTERNET, GOING
INTO THE GAMES ON FRIDAY.
THEY’RE CRITICIZING THE U.S. FOR
PUBLICLY TALKING AGAINST CHINA
WITH THIS I DID BLOW DIPLOMATEIC
>> THE COMMUNIST PARTY HAS HAD
AN ANTI-AMERICAN NARRATIVE THAT
THEY DISPENSED THEIR PEOPLE FOR
MANY YEARS NOW AND THAT WAS -- I
THINK IS ONLY BECOMING MORE AND
MORE VISIBLE TO THE WORLD.
BUT THEY HAVE TO EXPLAIN TO
THEIR PEOPLE ESSENTIALLY WHY
THEIR OLYMPICS ARE NOT A BIG HIT
WITH A LOT OF NATIONS AND I
THINK THE HUMAN RIGHTS GROUPS
ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT ABOUT THIS.
THE FOUNDATION FOR HUMANITY
ISSUED A STATEMENT TALKING ABOUT
HOW THE OLYMPICS CANNOT HIDE THE
PERSECUTION OF UYGHURS AND I
THINK EVERYBODY UNDERSTANDS THAT
THIS IS -- THESE ARE PROBABLY --
THINS IS JUST A TERRIBLE SET OF
GAMES.
WE HAVEN’T HAD AN OLYMPIC GAMES
IN A NATION THAT’S COMMITTING
GENOCIDE SINCE 1936 IN NAZI
GERMANY.
I THINK THE WORLD UNDERSTANDS
THAT.
I THINK ALSO ATHLETES ARE GOING
TO GET A TASTE OF LIFE IN CHINA
WHEN THEY START TO HAVE TO
DOWNLOAD THE APPS AND DEAL WITH
CENSORSHIP AND WE’RE GOING TO
GET A SENSE OF WHAT XI JINPING’S
CHINA IS REALLY LIKE.
SO THAT MAY BE AN IMPORTANT
EXPERIENCE FOR SOME PEOPLE.
BACK TO RUSSIA AND CHINA, I
THINK THE POINT HERE IS THERE’S
SOMETHING INTERESTING THAT’S
GOING ON AS I THINK THE
SANCTIONS PACKAGES ARE BEING
DEVELOPED AND I WANT TO SAY
SOMETHING THAT THE BRITISH --
HERE’S WHAT THE BRITISH HAVE
BEEN UP TO IN THE FINANCIAL
TIMES, EXPANDING SANCTIONS THAT
CAN TOUCH ANY INDIVIDUAL OR
BUSINESS OF ECONOMIC AND
STRATEGIC SIGNIFICANCE TO THE
KREMLIN AND THE BRITISH FOREIGN
SECRETARY SAID THAT THE IDEA
HERE IS FOR RUSSIAN COMPANIES
INVOLVED IN PROPPING UP THE
RUSSIAN STATE TO BE ABLE TO BE
SANCTIONED SO THE LEGISLATION
ENABLES THEM TO HIT A WIDER
VARIETY OF TARGETS.
I THINK THE PREPARATION FOR
DEALING WITH A MAJOR POWER LIKE
RUSSIA IS GOING TO TEACH US A
LOT ABOUT HOW TO DEAL ULTIMATELY WITH CHINA.
I MEAN, TO BE ABLE TO CONCEIVE
VERY SOPHISTICATED SANCTIONS ON
A MAJOR NATION, IT’S NOT QUITE
THE SIZE OF CHINA BUT WE’RE
HAPPY TO THINK ABOUT MAJOR
ADVERSARIES IN WAYS THAT ARE ON
A DIFFERENT SCALE THAN NORTH
KOREA AND IRAN.
ULTIMATELY CHINA IS OUR BEST
FOOT FORWARD IS REALLY GOING TO
BE ABOUT ECONOMIC -- ESSENTIALLY
APPLYING ECONOMIC MEASURES TO
THE NATION TO SLOW DOWN ITS RISE
AND MAINTAIN HE DETERRENCE AS WE
DO THAT.
THIS IS FORCING POLICY MAKERS TO
DEAL WITH SOMETHING BIGGER THAN
THEY’VE HAD TO DEAL WITH IN A
LONG TIME AND A LOT OF THE
LEARNING CURVE WILL BE
APPLICABLE TO OUR MAIN 5D SER MA
CHINA.
FOR THE EUROPEANS TO RECOGNIZE
THE COORDINATION BETWEEN RUSSIA
AND CHINA, THAT’S WHEN WE START
TO GET INTO A GAME THAT WE CAN
WIN.
MARIA: .MARIA: WELL THE GAS ELE
HERE WITH THE EUROPEANS ARE
RELIANT ON RUSSIAN GAS CREATES A
REAL BARRIER I THINK FOR
GERMANY, FOR EXAMPLE, TO SIDE
WITH THE UNITED STATES ON
PUSHING BACK RUSSIA.
LET ME ASK YOU THIS.
LOOK, I BELIEVE THE LAST TIME
VLADIMIR PUTIN INVALENTINE’S DAY
CRYCRIMEA WAS AROUND THE OLYMPIC
DO YOU EXPECT AN INVASION OF
UKRAINE TO HAPPEN SOON?
DO YOU EXPECT CHINA TO TRY TO
INVADE TAIWAN?
JOHN RATCLIFFE, FORMER DNI
JOINED ME YESTERDAY ON SUNDAY
MORNING FUTURES TALKING ABOUT
PRESIDENT BIDEN AND HOW HE HAS
NOT CONFRONTED XI JINPING ON THE
ORIGINS OF THE PANDEMIC.
LISTEN TO RATCLIFFE.
>> DOES HE NOT REMEMBER THE
CONVERSATION HE HAD WITH
PRESIDENT XI.
IF HE HAD A THREE AND-A-HALF
HOUR SUMMIT I’M NOT SURE WHAT’S
WORSE, THAT HE DID RAISE
THE ISSUE AS HE’S NOW CLAIMING,
CONTRARY TO PRESS REPORTS, THAT
HE DID RAISE THE ISSUE THAT THE
U.S. INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY, ALL
18 AGENCIES FIND THAT THE LAB
LEAK AT WUHAN IS ONE OF ONLY TWO
PLAUSIBLE EXPLANATIONS THAT
CAUSED THE PANDEMIC AND KILLED A
MILLION AMERICANS, OR THAT
PRESIDENT XI’S RESPONSE TO THATS
WAS, AS YOU JUST HEARD FROM JOE
BIDEN, NO, WE’RE NOT GOING TO
COOPERATE.
GO POUND SAND.
GET LOST.
THAT TELLS YOU HOW THEY ARE
VIEWING LEADERSHIP IN THE WHITE
HOUSE, THAT THEY WILL DO WHAT
THEY WANT, WHEN THEY WANT, WITH
IMPUNITY WITH REGARD TO THE
UNITED STATES AND IT’S WHY YOU
SEE THESE STATEMENTS COMING OUT
OF CHINA, OUT OF RUSSIA, OUT OF
IRAN.
MARIA: JONATHAN, WE STILL DON’T
KNOW THE ESSENCE OF WHAT WENT ON
IN THAT CALL.
DID BIDEN BRING UP THE ORIGINS
OF COVID TO XI XI OR -- XI JINPI
NOT AND WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT
THE POTENTIAL INVASIONS HERE?
WILL RUSSIA INVADE UKRAINE?
WILL CHINA INVADE TAIWAN?
AROUND OR AFTER THE OLYMPICS.
>> WELL, HOPEFULLY NOT.
I MEAN, CHINA HAS MUCH, MUCH
MORE TO LOSE HERE THAN RUSSIA.
THEY DEPEND ON THE WORLD ECONOMY
IN WAYS THAT RUSSIA HAS ALREADY
BEEN CUT OFF FROM.
SO I THINK THEY’RE STILL PLAYING
A BIT OF A LONGER GAME BUT
THEY’RE OBVIOUSLY BUILDING
MILITARY CAPABILITY TO DO THIS
SO HOPEFULLY WE CAN OBVIOUSLY
DETER THIS IN THE SHORT TERM BUT
I THINK IN THE MEDIUM TERM IT’S
A REAL ISSUE.
MARIA: ALL RIGHT.
JONATHAN, GOOD TO SEE YOU THIS
MORNING.
ALWAYS A WEALTH OF KNOWLEDGE
FROM YOU.
WE APPRECIATE IT.